tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post8443950455399938490..comments2023-07-04T10:10:25.205-04:00Comments on Apologia: The Chicken FarmerWilliam Lusehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-70706826538824105242012-08-09T15:23:21.733-04:002012-08-09T15:23:21.733-04:00I criticized him based on things that actually cam...I criticized him based on things that actually came out of his mouth. I don't need to familiarize myself with his work to discover how utterly wrong he is about those things. You can't stop, can you? You keep saying the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.William Lusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-60125092145838669282012-08-09T08:18:58.583-04:002012-08-09T08:18:58.583-04:00I am not insistent that anyone read him. I merely ...I am not insistent that anyone read him. I merely make the (apparently earth-shattering) suggestion that those who choose to criticize or dismiss him at least familiarize themselves with his work first. Not sure when this became such a controversial idea. I know that we conservatives scream when libs do it to us.N Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-59590880863738706802012-08-08T18:29:43.995-04:002012-08-08T18:29:43.995-04:00You can't tell the difference between a carica...You can't tell the difference between a caricature and a fact made manifest by words from the man's own mouth. <br /><br />Esolen, who happens to be a friend, can speak for himself. I've seen nothing from him on this since the Miller essay appeared. I will always read Esolen on these issues, but never Berry, and your insistence that people <i>must read Berry and take him seriously</i> is beginning to look petulant to the point of neurotic. You are welcome to your enthusiasms; just don't expect everyone to share them. This thread is over. Come back on a different one.William Lusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-34555060652257719572012-08-08T08:09:27.733-04:002012-08-08T08:09:27.733-04:00"You can't seem to focus on what my compl..."You can't seem to focus on what my complaint actually is: A man who claims that unborn children are human beings, but that it's all right to kill some of them; who lauds the beauty of marriage but then approves the homosexual parody. That man has nothing to say to me."<br /><br />Well, frankly that's a caricature, and if you read WB you'd know that. Seriously, do you think someone as solid as Esolen, who undoubtedly has major issues with WB's views on marriage and abortion, would consider him worthwhile otherwise if he wasn't? Or the seriously conservative Catholic guys at Front Porch Republic like James Matthew Wilson and Jeff Polet?Nice Marmotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-40867124098388200532012-08-07T17:53:03.284-04:002012-08-07T17:53:03.284-04:00You can't seem to focus on what my complaint a...You can't seem to focus on what my complaint actually is: A man who claims that unborn children are human beings, but that it's all right to kill some of them; who lauds the beauty of marriage but then approves the homosexual parody. That man has nothing to say to me.<br /><br />I've discouraged no one from reading him, although that might be implicit from the nature of the post. But in the end I speak only for myself. I would never, by the way, claim that a writer whose ideas are defective in some way can write nothing of any worth. I am not about to throw out the works of Hemingway and Larkin because they were nihilists. Such men might deal honestly in their works with difficult questions to which they have no answer, although a reader will likely leave those works with a certain emptiness, even despair, at the apparent hopelessness of it all. But these are not men I will look to for guidance along the path to truth. Unlike Larkin, who never pretended to be what he wasn't, Berry is a poseur. You might keep in mind that he considers your admiration a source of amusement. He laughs at you.<br /><br />When Schlueter says that Berry's "... is the most impressive effort in our time to protect, preserve, and deepen the knowledge of the human person that lies at the heart of Western civilization," you ought to take pause since Berry doesn't even know which of those persons are eligible for murder, or what kinds of persons are essential to a Christian marriage. Or maybe you don't care about those things in the same way that I do.William Lusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-40185341648871176102012-08-07T08:43:03.123-04:002012-08-07T08:43:03.123-04:00"I didn't judge Berry based upon that lec..."I didn't judge Berry based upon that lecture, of which I've read only snippets. I judged him based upon what he said to Miller, and what Dreher and Carlson wrote about him."<br /><br />Here's what Schlueter says after his recommendation about the lecture: <br /><br />"He fully deserved the honor of the lecture. His body of work in fiction, poetry, and essays constitutes the most impressive effort in our time to protect, preserve, and deepen the knowledge of the human person that lies at the heart of Western civilization, and to oppose the corrosive influences (utilitarianism, individualism, scientism, industrialism, etc.) that threaten to destroy that knowledge. His life itself is a testament of fidelity to that knowledge, worthy of acknowledgment, recognition, and celebration."<br /><br />The Miller interview does not change this perception. I can't quite fathom this conservative hesistancy about <i>reading the man himself.</i>Nice Marmotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-85104960004578367342012-08-06T19:30:37.925-04:002012-08-06T19:30:37.925-04:00So, you've bid farewell to W4 and decided to s...So, you've bid farewell to W4 and decided to stop by here on your way down the road.<br />Okay, I read Schlueter's thing and a sentence jumps out: "In the end, I would strongly encourage people not to judge Berry based upon this one lecture." Which means Schlueter wasn't too happy with it either. So I didn't judge Berry based upon that lecture, of which I've read only snippets. I judged him based upon what he said to Miller, and what Dreher and Carlson wrote about him. A man so concerned with what constitutes a healthy society, but who won't take a stand on the things most fundamental to that health - the humanity of human children in the womb, the necessity of male and female to any sane concept of marriage - is, to quote a genuinely good writer, a man 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.' <br />You might also note that Schlueter's column is dated May 3rd. This is well before Miller's interview came out. You should ask Schlueter to read it and then to write a follow-up.William Lusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-65082551288839811742012-08-06T13:53:29.915-04:002012-08-06T13:53:29.915-04:00"Back in May, Matthew Franck at First Things ..."Back in May, Matthew Franck at First Things had a few things to say about Mr. Berry's Jefferson Lecture"<br /><br />Yes, and also in First Things, Nathan Schlueter had a few things to say in response:<br /><br />http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2012/05/in-defense-of-wendell-berryNice Marmotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-15069462916838675792012-08-03T18:16:01.481-04:002012-08-03T18:16:01.481-04:00Sorry, I don't take anonymous potshots.Sorry, I don't take anonymous potshots.William Lusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-74475112742881184982012-08-03T07:12:21.653-04:002012-08-03T07:12:21.653-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-31296761212580414932012-08-02T21:00:09.679-04:002012-08-02T21:00:09.679-04:00He's a Baptist I believe, which means you don&...He's a Baptist I believe, which means you don't have the guardrails of the Magisterium guiding you, theoretically anyway give how few Catholics let it get in the way of their personal views.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17118362963139092279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-92172751999696898102012-07-31T23:48:21.163-04:002012-07-31T23:48:21.163-04:00Is Berry Catholic? Or supposed to be?Is Berry Catholic? Or supposed to be?William Lusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-25522548250933795002012-07-31T18:50:55.216-04:002012-07-31T18:50:55.216-04:00Fine post there. Chuckled at the part about how M...Fine post there. Chuckled at the part about how Mr. Berry's wife ought sue him. Also chuckled at your comment to Jeff about how if you need an agrarian philosopher (and really, who doesn't?) then you'll come to Jeff. <br /><br />Anyway nice takedown. There's a bit too much reverence around Berry and it might've gone to Berry's head. Methinks the emperor has fewer clothes than many imagine. I also think there are perils associated with eschewing the Magisterium, as Berrry has.TShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17118362963139092279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-37202019966596508152012-07-31T05:10:40.089-04:002012-07-31T05:10:40.089-04:00I'm trying to imagine a specific example that ...I'm trying to imagine a specific example that would make your last two sentences concrete, but nothing's coming to me. All I know is that if I need me an agrarian philosopher, I'm picking Culbreath over Berry in a heartbeat. <br /><br />I have known people who were wrong about important things, usually naively so (certain students come to mind), but possessed qualities of character - such as a kindly way of treating people - that I could only envy. But there's nothing naive about Mr. Berry, no innocence to fall back on. <br /><br />I'm glad you got a laugh, though. I used to be able to accomplish that more often, but the touch is waning.William Lusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-48322487994057118812012-07-31T04:05:14.734-04:002012-07-31T04:05:14.734-04:00Bill, as sympathetic as I am to W.B. and appreciat...Bill, as sympathetic as I am to W.B. and appreciative of his writing, you gave me a good laugh. Thanks. The man's lack of depth when it comes to the salient issues of our time is absurd. I certainly agree with Lydia that W.B.'s priorities are inverted. <br /><br />But therein lies his value: his inverted priorities can bring things to attention that need attending to, even if they don't rise to the level of priority he gives them. I don't subscribe to the notion that nothing can be learned from people who are wrong about important things. Sometimes those very people are right in ways that better people are not.Jeff Culbreathhttp://culbreath.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-43432170429185497192012-07-30T20:11:27.602-04:002012-07-30T20:11:27.602-04:00Abortion seems to me one of those issues in regard...Abortion seems to me one of those issues in regards to which holding yourself above the fray is to render yourself of no use to anyone, especially the victims of this ultimate injustice.William Lusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-87815090749118515452012-07-30T16:36:42.049-04:002012-07-30T16:36:42.049-04:00Wow, this is all so good that I'm mostly just ...Wow, this is all so good that I'm mostly just going to bask in it rather than adding any comment of my own.<br /><br />What I see here, as I've guessed previously about Berry, is that he has an inverted set of priorities. Notice the extremely strong language about environmental issues--the rape of the earth--and the extent to which that influences his life. His passion for those issues, I have read in googled articles, has also led to his being arrested outside of nuclear power plants. (I wonder if he'll wear a hair shirt if he later decides, along with some other environmentalist-friendly types, that nuclear power has a lot to be said for it environmentally. But I digress.) <br /><br />In contrast to that, he's totally dispassionate and indeed intentionally disengaged on the issue of murdering unborn babies. It's not _just_ that he doesn't get arrested outside abortion clinics. I don't get arrested outside of abortion clinics either (though I have picketed them). It's that he so clearly holds that issue at arm's length. He seems to pride himself on not being very much engaged with the life issue and, in contrast, being very deeply engaged with the environmental issue. It's almost like the "rape of Gaia" is more real to his gut than the daily slaughter of the unborn. In fact, it's exactly like that.<br /><br />Now that I see his bafflement at his being liked by conservatives and his self-identification of himself as a lifelong Democrat, etc., I understand this better. He doesn't want to get passionate about the murder of the unborn because it's been identified as a conservative issue. He's much more comfortable talking about the rape of the earth.<br /><br />What's funny is that anyone calling himself a conservative would not be, shall we say, uncomfortable giving high admiration to someone about whom all of that is true.Lydia McGrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00423567323116960820noreply@blogger.com