tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post1900464406707440648..comments2023-07-04T10:10:25.205-04:00Comments on Apologia: For the YoungWilliam Lusehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-2889593009894247652008-05-05T21:17:00.000-04:002008-05-05T21:17:00.000-04:00No doubt there's a lot to that.I think I'll ask my...No doubt there's a lot to that.<BR/><BR/>I think I'll ask my wife tonight who comes first, me or God? She will probably say God, but I'll give her a hard time about it just for fun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-49693972038680023822008-05-05T20:39:00.000-04:002008-05-05T20:39:00.000-04:00Hi, I came here via Dale Price's blog. I will say ...Hi, I came here via Dale Price's blog. I will say a prayer for poor Stephanie and her family.<BR/><BR/><I>The woman who does not break away sees her survival, even her human worth, as somehow depending on this animal's good will. Why remains a mystery.</I><BR/><BR/>It is because of the Fall: "You will yearn for your husband and he will lord it over you." This is the disordered relationship of woman and man.<BR/><BR/>It is because a woman is putting a man before God, ultimately. As a Christian, I can order my relationship with my husband by yearning for Jesus and putting Him first in my life. DH comes a very close second, but come second he must. And that is the only way a woman can ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen to her.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-34608476360273752912008-05-03T02:36:00.000-04:002008-05-03T02:36:00.000-04:00Sounds like you're doing pretty well, Margaret.Sounds like you're doing pretty well, Margaret.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-31794105772440770102008-05-02T19:14:00.000-04:002008-05-02T19:14:00.000-04:00Heartbreaking story, thank you for posting it. On...Heartbreaking story, thank you for posting it. One more note on "girls"-- that is the word used around our house, since my five sons are still boys, and the usual formulation is "You never, ever hit a girl." In this context, it's in reference to their three sisters, in a house full of kids where missing sports equipment, "borrowed" candy, short fuses, etc. spill over into wrestling matches fairly easily. I don't think I can stop the wrestling and fighting entirely-- there is a reason for the cliche "Boys will be boys." But I'm trying my best to make sure they are boys who don't hit girls, and would find it shameful and unmanly to do so in their future adult lives.<BR/><BR/>MargaretAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-27777601763015925252008-05-01T22:24:00.000-04:002008-05-01T22:24:00.000-04:00Anon, your comment doesn't need any help from me. ...Anon, your comment doesn't need any help from me. Stay safe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-62673616729345407412008-05-01T22:13:00.000-04:002008-05-01T22:13:00.000-04:00I double checked...indeed there are only two gende...I double checked...indeed there are only two genders. (I do remember typing all and thinking that was dumb and changing it to both... call it hyper-PC language <B>all and/or both</B>. <BR/><BR/>Mama T is right about the magical thinking. Too many woman have a mindset akin to that 'old' perfume commercial - you know, "Want him to be more of a man? Try being more of a woman?"Ellynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11553189251750677842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-62749854034546895662008-05-01T21:24:00.000-04:002008-05-01T21:24:00.000-04:00my mother posted anonymously my story.reading it f...my mother posted anonymously my story.<BR/>reading it from her perspective made me cry.<BR/>I never thought i would be a person who would be the survivor of DV... (victim is a word that leaves you powerless).<BR/>and yet here i am, over a year after, still haunted by the memories and the fear.<BR/>screwed by a legal system that gives people passes - see, according to them, since he was "mentally ill" and "addicted", he needed treatment, and his priors carried no weight. because it's a misdemeanor in my state.<BR/>in response to your "I don't how I would react"... after being told a part of the story, my aunt told my dad she could "pray for someone as she kicked their ass".<BR/>I look back and see how he was trying to isolate me, cutting down my friends and family and co-workers. but it happen so slightly, so subtly, that it's only in retrospect that I see the full effect. <BR/>his mistake in not getting away with it was timing - I still had my job, my independence, my family ties. I had to sneak around to keep them, but I still had them.<BR/>and, when it hit the fan, i still had people to call. in that way, I was / am a lot different than the average DV story.<BR/>thanks for this posting. If it raises just a little awareness... <BR/>anyway, i said a little prayer for Stephanie and her family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-33757084108525892862008-05-01T16:34:00.000-04:002008-05-01T16:34:00.000-04:00And those girl fighting videos you've probably see...And those girl fighting videos you've probably seen in the news will only exacerbate the boys' sense that it's okay to smack her now and then.<BR/><BR/>The only girls who've ever hit me were my daughters. They seemed to think they had a license to do it. It was all in fun, but Bernadette throws a mean punch that left my shoulder sore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-55590102710175133672008-05-01T10:18:00.000-04:002008-05-01T10:18:00.000-04:00as mamaT pointed out most girls -- and i mean girl...as mamaT pointed out most girls -- and i mean girls -- are flattered by the isolation before they're battered by it. <BR/>isolation is a HUGE red flag that more parents need to be aware of for their children. by children i mean "young people" because, while it isn't as common, there are boys out there as well who are being abused by their girlfriends. <BR/>in our contraceptive/abortion-minded society, human dignity has crumbled so low that this is a problem we're bound to see explode in generations to come. God help us all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-81503141374830963722008-05-01T04:24:00.000-04:002008-05-01T04:24:00.000-04:00I agree, Bill.It's good to have a girl on my side....<I>I agree, Bill.</I><BR/><BR/>It's good to have a girl on my side.<BR/><BR/><I>And I have the habit of referring to people of all both genders as "guys."</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know what "all both genders" are - two seems enough- but you're right. Now that I think about it I hear it all the time. I've even heard my wife address the two daughters that way. Lydia used to start her emails to the W4 group with "Hey, guys..." Of course, we were all guys so, uh, never mind.<BR/><BR/>Terry, that's a fine, insightful comment, especially about the isolation. It was in fact true of Stephanie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-81913329240656356142008-05-01T03:36:00.000-04:002008-05-01T03:36:00.000-04:00I would say to Lydia that there are very often war...I would say to Lydia that there are very often warning signals given before the abuse ramps up, but very often these are taken to be signs of "how much he loves me" rather than the precursors to abuse that they are.<BR/><BR/>Very often it starts with excessive anger and/or jealousy. "Were you talking to that guy? Were you? Were you?"<BR/><BR/>It also starts with isolation--"We just need to be the two of us"--all the time--effectively cutting out anyone who might warn her that he's taking advantage of her. Or it might be "Your friends don't like me" so they hang with *his* friends all the time--who won't say anything to him, 'cause they either share his ugly viewpoints, or they're too afraid of him to be more than yes-men.<BR/><BR/>Girls (women, whatever) often take these kind of things as some darkly romantic start of the relationship. "Oh, he loves me so much he's jealous....." <BR/><BR/>And it moves on in small but steady increments. The closer she becomes to him, the further the violence (physical, verbal, emotional) progresses. The woman finds herself in deep before she realizes that she is in trouble.<BR/><BR/>And the women engage in something that counselors call "magical thinking." "If I just keep the house cleaner" or "If I just don't look sexy for the rest of the world" or any one of a hundred thousand things that he has told her is the reason that he does what he does, then everything will be all right. Only it never is.<BR/><BR/>Abusers are masters at isolation--removing ever so surely the support group around their victim. Women often find themselves far away from family and other sources of help. And it's hard to leave when you have no skills and a bunch of kids.....<BR/><BR/>So, sometimes it comes out of the blue. But most women look back on the courtship period and see signs that could have warned them. But they explained them away or ignored them.<BR/><BR/>And the women aren't just young, or uneducated, or stupid. One of the women I met at our shelter was a doctor--who turned over her whole paycheck to a scumbag husband who told her she was fat, ugly, and stupid. And this woman, who had done so much in her life, believed him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-51588302840076282242008-04-30T21:08:00.000-04:002008-04-30T21:08:00.000-04:00Having been part of the generation that held the t...Having been part of the generation that held the term "girl" in such low regard, that makes me old enough to long to be called a girl. Twelve year old girls find some sort pseudo-empowerment in referring to themselves as women, but women of a certain age don't mind being called girls. Though, maybe in about twenty years I'll find girl to be a patronizing variation on ageism and wish to be a woman again. Through it all, I do remain female.<BR/><BR/>And I have the habit of referring to people of all both genders as "guys." I should cut back on this, not for gender reasons, but because it probably sounds a little too casual and goofy. But cordial...very cordial.Ellynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11553189251750677842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-58557984350599422212008-04-30T20:34:00.000-04:002008-04-30T20:34:00.000-04:00I agree, Bill.I agree, Bill.Lydia McGrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00423567323116960820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-57540173574781873182008-04-30T16:53:00.000-04:002008-04-30T16:53:00.000-04:00No one talks about "the boys down at the parking b...<I>No one talks about "the boys down at the parking bureau," right?</I><BR/><BR/>Wrong. My wife used to let me have a night out with the boys. When I worked at a public golf course, we referred to the boys over at city hall, or the boys in maintenance,etc. I've heard it a million times. I've called my wife a girl on many occasions, as in "It's a girl thing, isn't it?" She considers it a term of endearment. You're straining at a feminist gnat.William Lusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-28271896777204450912008-04-30T08:06:00.000-04:002008-04-30T08:06:00.000-04:00The kind of man who would hit a woman has hierarch...The kind of man who would hit a woman has hierarchicalized the world into people who are beneath him and people who are above him. It would seem to me that he hates both, but he only fears the ones above him. The ones below, he feels he can do with as he sees fit. As you said, like property.<BR/><BR/>You don't view your children as inferior to you because you are a decent human being. But to someone who views coercion as a valid means of obtaining love (or a servility that passes for it) his children and his girlfriend would, in fact, be viewed as inferior.<BR/><BR/>I didn't mean that referring to the victim as a "girl" would *cause* domestic violence, only that it's a holdover of the idea that women in general aren't worth as much as men. What we need, linguistically, is the female equivalent of "guy," because using "girl" for everyone from the woman answering the phones to one's potential spouse to the person behind the counter at the bakery has a diminutive effect. No one talks about "the boys down at the parking bureau," right? I'm 36 and have had five children, and occasionally I still hear myself referred to as a girl.<BR/><BR/>It's part of the cultural norm right now to refer to a woman as a girl under certain circumstances, and challenging that in part will challenge the cultural norm that allows wife-beaters to continue beating their wives.Jane Lebakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00851954297667846546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-72881991734712464532008-04-30T04:34:00.000-04:002008-04-30T04:34:00.000-04:00I find that line hysterically funny.Your amusement...<I>I find that line hysterically funny.</I><BR/><BR/>Your amusement is the knowing laugh of women everywhere.<BR/><BR/><I>...no clues to a violent type of guy, no warning signs?</I><BR/><BR/>Sometimes, sometimes not until the first blow has landed. Maybe I'll tell the story sometime about the couple who lived across the street from us. The guy never touched her, just screamed her humiliation through an open window to the whole neighborhood. <BR/><BR/>I see that Zippy's on my wavelength. <BR/><BR/>From Terry and Micki (and others) I conclude that, though I do not understand women, there's a certain kind of woman that even women don't understand, parallelling my further inability to understand a certain kind of "man."<BR/><BR/>Further pondering Philangelus' comment: I don't think I ever saw my children as my inferiors - my subordinates, perhaps, in an ordained hierarchy, but not inferiors. I found their innocence a constant delight, but also a reproach to the inevitable corruptions of "maturity," my own, that is, just as I find my wife's feminine graces a reproach to my male ego. <BR/><BR/>Before anyone jumps all over me, keep in mind I imagine this from the deracinated male scumbug's persepective: but if I had to choose an analogous relationship to the woman-beater and his victim , it might more be that of a pimp to his whore, in which the proven technique for cultivating dependency requires sporadic moments of lavished affection, after which she is returned to her essential status as property, resistance to which condition will not necessarily be futile (if her efforts are heroic), but is likely to be painful. The woman who does not break away sees her survival, even her human worth, as somehow depending on this animal's good will. Why remains a mystery. For those who do break away (Nicole Brown Simpson comes to mind), the only mystery is why the law pleads its inability to protect her from the knucklewalker who turned her face black and blue. I should think the honor of women ought to be a main measure of a 'civilized' society.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-27055992703131246732008-04-29T21:28:00.000-04:002008-04-29T21:28:00.000-04:00HVLD. (High velocity lead deficiency).HVLD. (High velocity lead deficiency).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-70151029989443835732008-04-29T21:12:00.000-04:002008-04-29T21:12:00.000-04:00"She has hinted in her softer moments that she sti..."She has hinted in her softer moments that she still thinks of me as head of the family, but it's largely a ceremonial position."<BR/><BR/>I don't know quite why, but I find that line hysterically funny.<BR/><BR/>Is it really true that there are no clues to a violent type of guy, no warning signs? I'm asking this seriously. I wouldn't know, having no experience with one.Lydia McGrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00423567323116960820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-60820304633487718542008-04-29T20:44:00.000-04:002008-04-29T20:44:00.000-04:00I'm not getting the linguistic cause and effect be...I'm not getting the linguistic cause and effect between the use of "girl" and "woman", since every woman is somebody's little girl,<BR/>whose inherent dignity is the full flower of that long ago innocence and fragility that elicits from decent men a desire to protect, not attack. Punishing one's child is a far cry from the kind of smash- mouth we're talking about here.<BR/><BR/>Now I have on occasion tried to convince my wife that I'm her superior, with decidedly mixed results. Her most common response is a sneer. She has hinted in her softer moments that she still thinks of me as head of the family, but it's largely a ceremonial position.<BR/><BR/>I do think it's a problem that so many "judges and police officers and district attorneys...think hitting one's wife is a lesser offense than hitting a stranger," as though it were somehow more understandable (when in fact it's the exact opposite), but I doubt it's for the reason you give.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-14028543318478287512008-04-29T07:56:00.000-04:002008-04-29T07:56:00.000-04:00Any woman trying to leave an abusive relationship,...Any woman trying to leave an abusive relationship, or anyone who wants to help a woman leave an abusive relationship, should read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker. Among the things he writes is something touched on in the comments, which is that often a restraining order is most useful for identifying the woman's murderer when the cops find her body. :(<BR/><BR/>I wanted to say, I'm intrigued by the commentary that talks on the one hand about women's inherent dignity and the fact that men shouldn't hit them, but repeatedly says things like "men shouldn't hit girls." I think that language itself is partially responsible for some men's acceptance of domestic violence. By calling her a "girl" but him a "man," we've unintentionally set up a linguistic hierarchy where he's her superior; he's almost her parent. It's okay to spank a child for misbehavior, so in an abuser's mind, it becomes okay for him to hit his girlfriend/wife because she's "a girl." His inferior. His child in a way. <BR/><BR/>Unless the victim is under fourteen, she's a woman. If we change that one little part of the way we speak about domestic violence, we might be able to seed a different perspective in those around us. It won't change the opinions of men who think it's okay to hit women, but it might change the opinions of judges and police officers and district attorneys who think hitting one's wife is a lesser offense than hitting a stranger.Jane Lebakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00851954297667846546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-31090191074337464222008-04-29T02:01:00.000-04:002008-04-29T02:01:00.000-04:00Well, I've already mentioned how to stop the cycle...Well, I've already mentioned how to stop the cycle. A woman-beater is a particular form of narcissistic low-life. The girl's just an extension of his ego. If the justice system won't protect the innocent then someone has to. A few years ago out at the school where I work, a girl who'd gone through all the same formalities as your daughter got killed by her stalker boyfriend in the parking lot. It sounds to me as though your daughter's living as the victim of a second crime, just one that doesn't happen to be on the books because of who committed it.<BR/><BR/>I don't know what I'd do if it happened to my daughter. I won't know unless it happens and I don't want to find out. But it's a war and somebody has to win. People think it's just tough talk, but I have a pretty good idea of what's in me. <BR/><BR/>Probably not the kind of response you wanted, since it's not the Christian way. I'm not trying to put ideas into your head, btw. I hope your daughter gets the peace she deserves. I hope the guy gets so high on cocaine and alcohol that he walks into traffic, so that she can have her freedom back. The one Christian thing I'll do is say a prayer for her.<BR/><BR/>(The girl I wrote about in this post, btw, is not the only one <I>from this semester alone</I> who had a story to tell about a jealous, screaming, fist-wielding boyfriend. There were several. So young it would break your heart. I wanted to adopt them all, but I can't.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-55794335308456200982008-04-28T23:11:00.000-04:002008-04-28T23:11:00.000-04:00Bill, I don't know if you take anonymous comments,...Bill, I don't know if you take anonymous comments, but I am respecting the choice of another to remain anonymous here. My daughter was in a relationship that ended abruptly and violently when he beat her horribly. She managed to get out, called the cops, waited there until they hauled him away to the hospital (he had cut himself and she was in pretty bad shape herself). It was the first and the last time. We had met him once and had no clue that he had that potential within him. Anyhow, my daughter pursued the legal recourse available to her. She moved across town, took out a restraining order, filed every charge against him that she could. Even though (as it turned out) he had a prior offense, and was high on alcohol and cocaine at the time of his arrest, he was allowed to plea bargain down to a fairly minimal sentence with 'anger management' classes tacked on. My daughter was able to get him blacklisted in his line of work in their community, but she still lives in fear that some how he will find her. <BR/>She did everything right, and still she has in so many ways less freedom than the person who beat her does. <BR/>I don't know what the answer is. Many of these males (I hate to call them men) grew up watching their male parent beating up women around them, or were themselves the target of violent rages. That is not an excuse, just an observation. The cycle has to stop somewhere, somehow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-59304354568987298912008-04-28T11:27:00.000-04:002008-04-28T11:27:00.000-04:00the reasons women stay with their abusers vary as ...the reasons women stay with their abusers vary as much as the women themselves. and i speak from experience when i say that it doesn't matter what anybody tells you, you have to be in the right headspace to decide that the bastard isn't worth it any more. the scary part is that not many women seem to be able to find that space and not one can ever find it alone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-59995499678097379472008-04-27T22:37:00.000-04:002008-04-27T22:37:00.000-04:00I know what her reason would be. It's a reason we...I know what her reason would be. It's a reason we heard time and again. "But I LOVE him."<BR/><BR/>It was what finally drove me to other volunteer duties. I just could NOT wrap my head around that.<BR/><BR/>He hurts you, but you LOVE him so much that you don't want him to be in trouble?<BR/><BR/>In the end I just couldn't get it. EVER. I had to leave the work to others who had more empathy or something. I ended up just driving myself (and probably them) crazy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3712012.post-64492533173025850022008-04-26T16:43:00.000-04:002008-04-26T16:43:00.000-04:00The mother included a lot of details, but nothing ...The mother included a lot of details, but nothing about seeking medical treatment for those particular injuries. They may not have required such treatment. But you'd think after the second time she'd call the police who could charge him with assault. She never did, though. Didn't want him to get in trouble - for whatever reason. It wouldn't be a reason that I could understand.William Lusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15928946919078483848noreply@blogger.com